SPEAKER_00 0:00

I'm Dawn Flanagan, a Nationally Certified Interpreter, and here with us again today is Peggy Ostrander, a Nationally Certified Interpreter. Today we are going to discuss interpreters and the IEP. If an interpreter gets invited to an IEP, what is their role? What do they talk about? How do they contribute to an IEP? What are your feelings on that?

SPEAKER_01 0:24

We're part of the education team. So the sticky part about it is we actually usually know a lot more about the student than most people. So one of our things is we need to stay in our lane and that we can talk about their signing, showing that they're comprehending something, and their ability to communicate back to you and let you know if they're getting what's being presented. It's really easy to get caught up on their personality and what they do. And did they do their home? Or I guess the term that comes to mind for me is stay in your lane. Yeah. You know, your lane is language and communication and not language arts, but language. And then a teacher's roads or tracks are the education, the personality, and all of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

The reason that the interpreter can speak to language issues, you know, are they comprehending when they're signing back to me as the interpreter? Are they using correct signs? Are they using complete sentences? And as the interpreter, are they understanding my signs and my speed or rate of signing? No one else is gonna know that unless we offer that information as the interpreter. So I really think that is what we should discuss when being called in. When I've been called into IEPs, I would give that information, I would write it out and I would give it to the deaf teacher and have them present the information. Unless there's a child that's just really having a difficult time with language for whatever reason. I try to stay out as much as possible. Um, even though, you know, the advocate in me sometimes wants to step in and say, you need to do this and this and this and this. But you could go either way. You could go in and just make sure that you you're in and you're out, right? You're in, you say your piece, and you get out, or you give the information to the teacher. And I think part of it is are you hired directly by the district or are you a contractor? Because I think contractors have a little more leeway. And if you're hired for the district by the district, the district is your boss and they're gonna tell you what to do, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

I worked in a middle school for a very, very long time. I was the interpreter lead, so I did the schedules and such. So I would go to the IEPs. A lot of times we didn't have time to go to the IEPs because we were with our students. So what we would end up doing is the interpreter who was with that student the most would write it out and give it to the teacher of the deaf. Now, here's my question. Do you, as the interpreter, interpret the IEP or do you bring in a third party?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Okay, so my opinion is if you're interpreting for the child that you normally interpret for, I think it's okay to interpret for the child during the IEP because in the higher grades the children are part of the IEPs now. Um, when I first started interpreting, they weren't. But it's because that child is comfortable with you and they know you're signing and they know how you sign certain things in the educational setting. But if it's for the parents, I think you should bring in an interpreter from the outside who does not have daily contact with the children. That's just my feeling. Now, what about the issue of is an IEP legal and need a legal interpreter, or is an IEP educational and needs an educational interpreter? That's like probably the biggest question in the entire United States.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yes, because technically, if you look at an IEP, it is a legal binding document. And and a lot of the people who are doing the workshops right now are really advocating to have a legal interpreter involved with this because, again, it is a legal entity in itself. But we look at what we're doing in that legal situation, and it's an education setting. We're looking at this from an education perspective and not a legal perspective in that setting. The document, yes, the document is the legal aspect, but that setting is still education. So we have to match, you know, we've always been taught we match the situation, and I'm probably gonna get, you know, probably hear a lot of people saying, but we need to have the legal person in there. And again, this is my personal opinion, right or wrong. I do feel that we need to have the education interpreter in there because they know the setting, they know the staff, they know the principal, they know the special education, they know the terminology, they know the wording, they know what they're talking about, they know what uh you know a 504 is, they know what these numbers and they know what questions to ask if they're not sure if they're referring to a 504. Well, what is that? They know what's going on in this situation, they have that experience.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Well, you know, and and I agree with you because you know, legal interpreters they take their CEUs on legal jargon, courtroom etiquette, the laws pertaining to privacy with a client and all of these things. In an IEP, that legal jargon really does not exist. The IEP has jargon that is specific to the educational setting. And so if we go back to what I was taught in my IEP, you know, a thousand years ago, you match yourself or the interpreter that you're supervising to the situation, right? So an educational interpreter or someone who's worked in education or has taken CEUs in educational interpreting is probably a better match and will have a better communication flow. It will be more effective, right? The ADA says you have to be effective and appropriate for the situation, and you have to understand the vocabulary of the situation. I'm surmising, of course. But an educational interpreter, someone who's had all that knowledge, they're gonna bring the tool belt or that toolbox that they really need for that situation for it to be a good flow. Because what if, you know, they're talking about a CA60 and the deaf parent says, I don't understand, you know, C60 what? You can you can just like as an off say, oh, there's student file. You know, you can you can say, or I'm gonna sign it this way, it's a CA60. So I don't think that a legal interpreter is gonna know that kind of information. And I think that they're gonna be a detriment in the IEP process because the goal of the IEP is the success of the student, whether it's a behavior plan, whether it's, you know, how to do the testing or even the compliments that you are supposed to give, the strengths of the student. You know, there's nothing legal about that stuff. It's a binding document because it says the school has to do what everyone in the education team has agreed to, use interpreters, take tests in another room so they can take more time, all of these things. But there's no legalese in it.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Right. And going back to the ADA, one of the things that I remember and follow a lot is not, it's not always about the interpreter that has the appropriate certification and the appropriate endorsements endorsements and things like that. It goes back to an interpreter that knows the situation has the best match vocabulary, experience, and knowledge. Again, it's it's a sticky situation because you, you know, with with that, you know, you do have to get the parent approval to have when we're looking at in some situations. You have to have approval to go in. It's just like right now in Michigan, we have the the law that states you have to have a certain level of certification. Right. And there's other states that are the same way. And we have we have a waiver that can be signed. It's kind of in that realm where we are going into that situation because we have the knowledge, we have the experience, we have the know-how. Right. Even if we don't have that legal endorsement, we have that educational endorsement, we have that education part of the pie.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Sometimes we get so lost in certification and endorsements and all of this stuff that we forget at the end of the day. We are communication bridges. We're a tool that is used for two other parties to effectively and appropriately communicate to each other. And if we don't bring the right tools, then we are completely unaffective.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

And we have to have the trust of all the stakeholders in this situation. We have to have the trust of the parent, we have to have the trust of the child, and we have to have the trust of the educational staff that we are a part of that team, but we still have to be seen as allies for our student and for our parents. Can't forget that they are also stakeholders in this situation.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Absolutely. Do you feel the interpreter should have the ability to read the IEP of the students that they work with?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

I've always wanted to because I feel like it would help my job. Now, I'm not now we're not talking about a substitute interpreter.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

No, no, we're talking about their full-time interpreter.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Okay, full-time interpreter.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

It would be so helpful if that document was released to us, even if we had an hour just to skim it really quick. Because great example, I did not know this was in an IEP for my all my students, and I and advocate for this one, people, that anything shown in a video, even if the video was captioned, they needed to provide the notes to the student, and it was not they were not required to know that information unless it was provided in notes.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

I love it because the the student cannot watch a video, me and captions and all at the same time. And it's impossible. So I did not know this was in their IEPs. So I'm going to classes, I'm interpreting my little heart out, and I'm trying to remember this information because I know this student is gonna need, they're gonna have to recall some of this information. And I'm like, how is my student gonna pull this off?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

So my feeling on it is we absolutely we don't have to have a copy of it, right? No, you don't have to release a copy to the interpreter, but I feel that we need to be able to read through it, like you said, okay, at the beginning of the year or when the IEP you know is set and it's a student that you're working with, that you should be able to peruse it so that you know what you are responsible for. Because let's face it, creating an IEP is important. Implementing the IEP is probably the most important thing. Otherwise, why did you have this meeting? Why did you come to all these decisions and then not implement it? Like you just talked about. You had no idea they were supposed to be provided notes. Interpreters implement the IEP just as much as teachers and other staff implement the IEP. If we don't know what's in the IEP, if we don't know how much that we're supposed to give or not give, or time, or if we don't know these things, or we don't know the goals, right? Maybe the goal is better communication, more vocabulary. If we don't know that, how are we? No one else is going to teach them signed vocabulary, you know. So if we don't know, we can't implement.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

As much as we say we're just the interpreter, we're not just interpreters, people, we are the interpreters, but we're also advocates, right? And so if I know in an IEP that this student does better three rows back as opposed to the front row, because in three rows back they can see the board, they can see me, and they can see the teacher. So the class and the class. So now instead of a teacher assuming, oh, the student's deaf, they have to be in front and center so they can see the interpreter. If I don't know it's on the IEP that they need to be three rows back, I'm gonna be like, okay, right.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Or I love it, it's always the that corner, yeah. Yep, right, that first seat in the corner, and then we're sitting in the corner with them.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yep, always. But then if I know that they're three seats back, I I can say, hold, hold. If you read the students' IEP, three rows back, please. And we can make arrangements to best match our students, and that's the goal to best match the needs of our student.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

And let's face it, in an elementary school, the teacher has probably read the IEP. But let's just be honest, the teachers in the middle and the high school, when they have 200 students between all of their classes, are they gonna read and remember what everyone's IEP says? Probably not, you know. So if we're the ones implementing these processes, then we can step in and say, you know, they're supposed to sit in the third row.

unknown 13:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

So I absolutely, or or if they say, okay, take your student and let them take the test because they need to have, you know, they're hey, they're deaf or they're foreign language, they need more time for the test. Well, maybe the IEP says no that they're advanced enough in English that they can go ahead and take the test at the same time in the same time frame as the other students. You know, we can say, oh, hold on, you know, because not every deaf or you know, non-English speaking student is you know, is behind or has an issue, or it's just they are working at grade level.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

It's just like every single other student in the school. They're not one of those students are the same ever. And God bless our teachers, seriously, because they they have to deal with so much. I mean, we have to deal with our little bubble, but they have to deal with, you know, their seven bubbles. And I I give them so much credit, but you know, we're expecting them to remember everything about our kids. Yes, our kids are unique, so is every single single student in the school, but you know, they do tend to remember our kids more so because of us, right? Because we're walking into the classroom, and if we're walking in our classroom and our student is, they're asking where the student is, and I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

And you know, who who should have an IEP? Let's just run through that real quick. Yes, if you are a student who is limited English proficiency or a low English, there's all these different terms for it. Yes, you can have an IEP, and then of course, deaf, hard of hearing or other disabled can have an IEP. And there's other people who can have an IEP, but for what we're talking about, we're talking about language accents, those are the groups that we're working with. So, yes, if even if you're a foreign language interpreter, and I hope you're listening if you're a foreign language interpreter too, because it's not just about deaf and sign language, your students will most likely have an IEP, especially if they came in from another country and were educated in that country, and now we're in a different grade. I mean, they're just trying to figure out how to mesh those two educational systems. You will have an IEP that you will want to take a look at and know what the goals are. No, and you know, even knowing the strengths of the student that I'm working with is great because if a let's face it, they're kids, right? At the end of the day, they've only been on this planet for you know eight, uh 17, 18 years. If they can get away with something, they're gonna try and get away with it, you know? And you know, no, I don't know how to do that. Well, I read that your strengths are so not only is it a way to positively impact that student by complimenting them, right? Well, I know your strength is, you know, but then kind of let them know in a subtle way, hey, you're not gonna get away with that with me.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Well, it also lets the the interpreter, uh sign language interpreter or deaf interpreter know, you know, when do you take a back seat and when do you jump in? Because as language proficiency in our foreign language students increase, the need for that interpreter decreases so that interpreter can kind of step back and kind of gauge the situation. Sign language interpreter, as as language increases, we're more hands on.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Well, thank you, Peggy, for talking with me today about IEPs. And thank everyone for tuning in. Please stay tuned for more episodes. Thank you.